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MugiMugi
Administrator

KI: 1235

I've been thinking for quite some time about some radical changes to improve this site beyond the state it is right now.

First and foremost I've been debating so much on how to improve the system for 'series'. Eg we have collections but it's not working very well. Many who look up information generally just example want to read information such as what Shakugan no Shana is for an Manga or Novel. So this is my radical idea.

1. First off add an new category called Series/Mangas or something of that sort, Series would let it work with more then just 'Manga' After all. This category will contain global information about an work, contain what authors who have been working in it and so fort.

I'm not sure if EVERYTHING should have an category here, I think I'll probably not gonna have so called "one shots" become this category, reason for this is that most doujinshis is one shots and kind of hard having way to much information in this category.


2. The current books right now being renamed to Issisues or Books or some other name, cannot really tell for now. This category will be a complete released item, Like an Manga, Doujinshi and whatever, this will be able to link itself into the Series category. After all An series can contain many releases. The name for this category need to suit both boosk, stories, cg collections and other wird art.


3. Stories. This category is yet again something completely new, this one is the one at the bottom, For no everything will be be auto filled in for now. An Story is basically an story, doujinshis in general mostly contain one so. Many mangas have many stories. An Story is linked to books. With THIS, however you can link stories together to many Issues or books that i mentioned above, with this after all we can keep track of where each chapter being published.

Collection works easy to keep track of, Anthologies specially as most stores is just reprints from other books. Also here we can fill out insane detailed information ( if wanted ).

----

The book category can have MANY publications posted, when an new release been released of the same item, or another country and so fort. Something I have wanted to added for ages.

Each category mentioned above will be able to fill out the information listed here on the site already. When adding new information you can chose to use this information and continue to grow the site fast. This way many items will have some minor information faster listed as it's fast to add general information about an series that you later can use when submitted more detailed information.



-----

This is not 100% written in stone this is just some ideas I've been tackling over the spawn of time.

There is still a few issues on how to tackle this system, the biggest is for other type of items, such as CG album, games and so on, since the focus of this site is just not manga/doujinsh alone but the art style in itself.

So if you have ideas about this radical changes please let me know, if you think it will work I'll consider and brian storm more and also taking more ideas on how to extend to this and start to work.
2010-12-31 15:27:02<Quote> <Edit>

strDSR
KI: 6
I generally agree with the direction you are going with this. Smile
MugiMugi Wrote:
3. Stories. This category is yet again something completely new, this one is the one at the bottom, For no everything will be be auto filled in for now. An Story is basically an story, doujinshis in general mostly contain one so. Many mangas have many stories. An Story is linked to books. With THIS, however you can link stories together to many Issues or books that i mentioned above, with this after all we can keep track of where each chapter being published.
Maybe a better way to refer this would be "Story Arc"?
MugiMugi Wrote:
Collection works easy to keep track of, Anthologies specially as most stores is just reprints from other books. Also here we can fill out insane detailed information ( if wanted ).

What I like about this idea is that on an author's page, instead of just seeing what magazines he's published in, we could display useful information like the title of the manga chapter inside of it (or even the name of the story!). Of course alot of these serialized works aren't connected to any story, but it would still be useful for the ones that are.
2010-12-31 20:37:34<Quote> <Edit>
thecert
KI: 72

I like the idea of having classifications like this. I wonder if there is a way of borrowing or adapting some classifications that libraries use -- after all, librarians have been cataloging things for decades, and large libraries may hold an even wider variety of objects than are found in this database. (Note: I used to work in a library; however, I do not have formal training in library science.)

I've been looking at the classifications in MARC (MAchine Readable Cataloging) records used by libraries. Two basic concepts that seem to correspond to what is being discussed here are Type of Record (Type) and Bibliographic Level (BLvl). Type refers to the kind of physical object (a book, a magazine, a CD, etc.). BLvl indicates whether it is freestanding, part of something, or composed of multiple parts. Here are lists of each adapted from http://www.oclc.org/us/en/bibformats/en/introduction/default.shtm.


Type of record (most of these have subtypes that I'm not listing here)

Books
Textual Serials
Visual Materials (including Kits)
Mixed Materials
Maps
Scores
Sound Recordings
Computer Files

Bibliographic level

Component, monograph
Component, serial
Collection
Subunit
Integrating resource
Monograph
Serial

Some of these terms are discussed and defined at http://www.oclc.org/us/en/bibformats/en/fixedfield/type.shtm and http://www.oclc.org/us/en/bibformats/en/fixedfield/blvl.shtm.


Using a MARC-type system, most doujinshi would simply be Type: Books; BLvl: Monograph. (This applies even to collections or anthologies; BLvl: Collection refers to materials not originally published as a unit.) A single story in a doujinshi would be Type: Books; BLvl: Component, monograph. A regularly published manga: Type: Textual serial; BLvl: Serial. A story arc in a serial manga would be Type: Textual Serial; BLvl: Component, serial (because it is part of a bigger serial, the serial manga); an individual story in the arc, Type: Textual Serial; BLvl: Component, serial. A freestanding story in the same serial manga would be Type: Textual Serial; BLvl: Component, monograph (the story is physically in a serial-type item but is a monographic component because it is not itself serial in nature).

(At least, I think this is how these would work. It's been a long time since I worked with MARC records and, as I said, I have no formal library science training.)

I'm not hinting that this site should adopt the MARC cataloging system as a whole. I'm mentioning concepts like Type of Record and Bibliographic Level as a potential source of ideas for classifying materials here.
2011-01-01 01:44:37<Quote> <Edit>
MugiMugi
Administrator

KI: 1235

This site won't really suite itself as an normal book database as in the end, those ain't even good for comics in general, and more for really broad part of works. Things such as calendars or even doujinshi cg will not be remotely possible to categorize with that system.

Well been solving a few issues above and I think I got what it takes to actually start to write this entire system. Granted would like to know what more think about it before I start to work on it.
2011-01-01 15:12:55<Quote> <Edit>
MahaSparna
KI: 7

I, for one, support this idea 100%! Especially idea #3 (Stories). This database is already the greatest for the sheer amount of titles it holds, but it blows my mind to think how amazing it would be if manga could be broken down with detailed chapter information! Shock And it would be so very helpful in keeping track of how many magazines/manga that a story appeared in, and in what published order. Smile
2011-05-02 09:04:07<Quote> <Edit>
AnimeJanai
KI: 96

If there was a single location with the definition and example for every datafield, then perhaps people might use "Collection". I bet a lot of people wonder what that word means. I don't see how you can be disappointed with how few people use the Collection field if you do not say what it is up front and give an example. You can of course say that they should understand, or they should go look it up (where?), but then that is where elitism takes over and makes the database only a place for elitists to contribute but the common person cannot.
2011-05-03 22:46:47<Quote> <Edit>
MugiMugi
Administrator

KI: 1235

If you click the Contribute link without going into the sub categories you get to the help section:

http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/guide/?ID=5

example covers what you just mentioned.
2011-05-06 15:45:04<Quote> <Edit>
MugiMugi
Administrator

KI: 1235

Started to work and design this right now by the way. The process of 4.0 is starting pretty much.
2011-06-02 13:59:14<Quote> <Edit>
AnimeJanai
KI: 96

Manga stories are generally handled by mangaupdates.com

In my opinion, I feel that the mugimugi site should concentrate on doujinshi type items and leave the commercial manga items to mangaupdates. The MAIN reason is that having two major sites handle manga titles is counterproductive; that's because some fans may enter manga titles at one site, but NOT at the other site. Thus, over time, spotty untraceable gaps appear in each others' manga listings.

By having mangaupdates concentrate on manga, and mugimugi on doujinshi, that is a concept that fans find easy to remember.

--------------------------------------------------------

One idea that might improve the accuracy of data obtained from online sellers is to have all new entries go to a verification queue before they appear in the database. If data for that doujin is available from more than one online seller it is compared. If there are no discrepancies then the data would automatically be published in the database if two or more seller databases have the same data. If there is no data from other sites, then the item would wait for approval or disapproval. After 3 days in the queue, the item would be automatically approved and appear in the database. However, all automatic approvals would appear in a list so that the administrators would know which entries have higher risk for inaccuracy.
2011-06-18 13:12:20<Quote> <Edit>
MoeMoe
VIP

KI: 1333

【items which need multiple entries】

(1) Language
There are bilingual books.
Chinese / Japanese
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/101502/
Spanish / English and Spanish / Japanese
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/474697/
Japanese / English
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/459589/

(2) Imprint
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/454588/
You can see "シーズコミック (C's comic)" at upper left and "ももまんじるし (Momoman Jirushi)" at lower right.

(3) Convention
Convention catalogs for joint convention
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/455580/

(4) Date
Publication day / On-sale date
Amazon shows on-sale date.
Colopon shows publication day.

(5) Cover
Coupling / Reversible book
Both front and back covers are the main covers.
ex)
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/348413/

I think some fields are needed for images.
Front cover (check box: with spine / without spine)
Back cover
TOC, Index
Colophon
Sample

(6) Linking of Parodies

Parodies can have only one parent but sometimes they have multiple parents.

ex)
Rune Factory: A Fantasy Harvest Moon / ルーンファクトリー -新牧場物語-
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/parody/881/
This is a second title of New Harvest Moon series AND the first title of Rune Factory series.
But Rune Factory 2 is NOT a member of New Harvest Moon series.
If 2 series are linked, Rune Factory 2 will be listed as a child of Harvest Moon series.
So I don't want to link them.


【Publisher / Circle / Author】

My suggestion

Create 3 categories
・distributor
・maker
・creator

Create 1 item
・individual / organization

・consignment
Some small publishing companies only edit books and they are sold on consignment by larger companies which has channels of distribution.
ex) 童夢舎 / コアラブックス
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/publisher/578/
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/publisher/488/

So the maker is 童夢舎 and distributor is コアラブックス.

・M&A, consolidation
Kadokawa publishing group only distributes books which are edited by group companies
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/publisher/535/

・doujinshi by individual, no circle
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/389415/
This book is edited and distributed by 鷲巣義明

・publisher / organization as author
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1299

・distributing circle
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/circle/3694/
This circle in Taiwan distributes books by some Taiwanese circles like 風舞結界
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/circle/22022/
I think it translates the books to Japanese for Japanese market and has a channel of distribution in Japan.

So every individual / organization can be distributor / maker / creator.



Check boxes for individual / organization for filtering in search
・individual
・unit (like CLAMP)
・circle
・organization (like a steering body of convention)
・company

The reason why check box not pull-down menu

(1) individual and unit
Kizuki Aruchu / 鬼月あるちゅ
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/author/3051/

(2) unit and circle
Shigunyan / しぐにゃん
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/circle/814/

(3) don't know circle or author
Senba Kitchen / 船場きっちん
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/circle/25727/
Takumi na Muchi / たくみなむち
http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/browse/circle/694/
2011-12-19 07:05:02<Quote> <Edit>
MahaSparna
KI: 7

Just curious, but is the feature for "Stories/Chapters" still in the cards for the database?

I reiterate my feelings that it would be an invaluable addition, not just in keeping track of how many appearances a story has had (and where) but also breaking down which content tags occur in what chapters within a 200-500 page anthology.
2014-08-16 20:20:18<Quote> <Edit>
jimjim
KI: 12
*!radical change!*

Give certain fields with a lot of entries like the collection field a button to switch to a search box we already know from authors field. This should make searching easier and mods don't have to complain about ever growing dropdown fields.
2014-10-18 11:19:57<Quote> <Edit>
kylandra
KI: 113

I think AnimeJanai has a good point about replicating content/effort from other sites like Mangaupdates. For commercial books or anime, it might be more efficient to link to Mangaupdates, MAL, Amazon, etc. That way doujin can still be connected worth commercial works but avoiding some of the extra load and duplicated effort.
2015-10-06 22:49:14<Quote> <Edit>
Larek
KI: 16
4. Chapters
MugiMugi Wrote:
3. Stories. This category is yet again something completely new, this one is the one at the bottom... An Story is basically an story, doujinshis in general mostly contain one so. Many mangas have many stories. An Story is linked to books.

I would go one more step down and not stop at stories.

4. Chapters. This is a base object. "This one is the one at the bottom".
- 3-Stories are made up of 1 or more chapters.
- 2-Issues are printed collections of 1 or more chapters (Doujinshi commonly having 1)(Manga 5-12) (Magazines 10-20), anthology, omnibuses, etc.

"With this after all we can keep track of where each chapter being published", this would be true because every 2-Issue is a collection of them.

With this model, it won't matter if a manga/anthology has one or more stories, because the collected 4-Chapters of a 2-Issue would define the 3-Stories contained in the 2-Issue.


Now I'm not saying we would necessarily present website visitors with chapters as a searchable object. I think we should stick with 2-Issues as the primary presented objects to visitors. The visitors could work their way down and click on a single chapter, to then find everywhere that specific chapter as been published.

Likewise a detailed 3-Story search, would list all the 2-Issues that contain any of the 4-Chapters from the 3-Story.

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Chapters as inter-language linking
MugiMugi Wrote:
The book category can have MANY publications posted, when an new release been released of the same item, or another country and so fort. Something I have wanted to added for ages.
MugiMugi Wrote:The current books .. renamed to Issisues

I think 4-Chapters is the best way to accomplish this. When 3-Stories are released in other languages, 4-Chapters tend to stay intact, but 2-Issues are regularly mangled, with chapters being recollected, or even dropped.

Vol 8 of a Manga in English is very likely to have a slightly different set of chapters that its Native Japanese counter part. As it has more dependence on how the earlier English release Vol were put together, than how Japanese Vol 8 counter part was put together.

A web visitor, viewing Japanese Vol 8, could be presented with links to other languages, if any of its chapters are in an 2-Issue with language other than Japanese.

So the Japanese Manga
--Jap Vol 8 (Chap 64-71)
would have a English Version link, that if clicked, would display three items 2-Issues that have the same type.
--Eng Vol 7 - Chapter 64
--Eng Vol 8 - Chapter 65,66,67,68,69
--Eng Vol 9 - Chapter 70,71
We also could have a English Release link that would display all 2-Issues regardless of type.
--Eng Vol 7 - Chapter 64
--Eng Vol 8 - Chapter 65,66,67,68,69
--Eng Vol 9 - Chapter 70,71
--Super Japan 785 - Chapter 69


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Chapters as bilingual release enabler
MoeMoe Wrote:
There are bilingual books.
Chinese / Japanese http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/101502/
Spanish / English and Spanish / Japanese http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/474697/
Japanese / English http://doujinshi.mugimugi.org/book/459589/

The only bilingual books, I've every seen is Manuals/Instructions. And for those 4-Chapters objects would help, as you could add multiple instances of a 4-Chapter to an 2-Issue, but with different Languages set.

--Chapter 45 - Japanese
--Chapter 46 - Japanese
--Chapter 45 - Chinese
--Chapter 46 - Chinese

---
Chapter object as non-story content container
The bit that doesn't fit well in the 4-Chapter model is non-story content (art book, data book type content). As the 4-Chapter setup works so well otherwise, I would propose that art book, data book type content be added as a special type of 4-Chapter, much like how currently Doujinshi and Manga are 'types' of objects, but really still are the same object.

2016-03-05 17:18:33<Quote> <Edit>
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