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MugiMugi
Administrator

KI: 1207

I'm debating to change the tag system around a tad bit, right now it do not feel to usefull and it's just to much work adding how often something contains in a book, plus a bit confusing for new users to just add simple information like this that mostly don't need Japanese reading skills.

So the idea is basically this

* Combine Content/Genre not even sure why I split this.
* Remove frequency on these & for Characters. Maybe even Parody.
* Make it easier to add them to books, do not need to go to Edit2 page but front page, Trust users won't need to comit new versions theyh will apply at once.
* Make it possible to combine tags for more advance tagging. Example (Swimsuit x Cat Girl)
* Make adding character work in combination to this, so you can tag Char * Char or Char * Tag.

I'm not sure this is what best but I think streamlining this would help the site overall, plus we get the option to combine characters and tags.

There might be more good ideas for this so if you have any let me know.
2015-03-07 15:11:38<Quote> <Edit>

7468726f77617761
KI: 77

* Combine Content/Genre not even sure why I split this.

I think there is a valid reason to split Contents and Genres, which is that I think that Contents tag individual elements of the work, while Genres categorize the entire work. So while Genre will always describe something about the entire book/item, Contents will tell you what that book/item contains.

But it brings up an issue I have with Genres, which is that at the moment I think it is overloaded with Type information:

1) Traditional Genres of "Media"/"Entertainment" (books, videos, games) (OK by me):
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/3/Comedy/
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/21/Historical/
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/6/Horror/

2) More Type than Genre (stretching the meaning of Genre, and why I think Genre is overloaded):
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/162/Mug,-Glass-%28goods%29/
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/201/Magnet-Sheet/

3) Valid Genre, but specific to Video Games and unlikely (but not impossible) for a Book:
https://www.doujinshi.org/browse/genre/145/Shooting-game/

I think #1 is valid and good use of the categorization, #2 is more about the "Type" of item versus its "Genre", and while #3 is a Genre I think its parent "Video Games" should be considered a "Type" versus a "Genre".

So instead of collapsing Content and Genre into 1 collection, I'm actually proposing to create 1 more collection to make 3 total: Type, Genre, and Content:
* Content would be the same as it is now, a system of tagging any and all items with snippets of information that describe something an item contains.
* Genre would be similar to how it is now, except all Genres would have an ancestor (a direct parent or the parent (of a parent) ad infinitum) Type that they'd belong to (the most general category being "Media" or "Entertainment" for most books, videos, games, and something like "Item"/"Object"/"Thing" that would contain mugs, keychains, and things that aren't strictly "Media" (or items that are meant to be entertaining)).
* Type would replace the Type combo box on the Edit page, and would contain the Types of objects contained the database. This would allow items such as mugs, keychains, posters, figurines, etc. to be identified right away, and allow new types of items to be added without twisting it into a category that doesn't really fit it. It would also have hierarchy like Content and Genre currently do, so that categories of types like "Item"/"Entertainment"/"Book"/"Manga", "Item"/"Entertainment"/"Video Game", and "Item"/"Mug, Glass" could be established.

This would require some other changes, the most notable being the doujinshi/manga distinction might need to be handled differently. In the Type list I'm imagining, instead of there being "Doujinshi" and "Manga" entries, there would just be a "Book" entry that would parent a "Light Novel" entry and a "Manga"/"Comic" entry.

To handle the "Doujinshi" distinction, a division already exists in the current list of Types between Doujinshi and Commercial books and items. It seems like it'd be better and simpler to just make that divide into a checkbox, so that the "unofficial books and items" called "doujinshi" are kept separate from the commercially-produced books and items, while allowing the Types of doujinshi items to grow (there are doujinshi games, goods, and videos out there I believe).



* Remove frequency on these & for Characters. Maybe even Parody.

Probably a good idea. I didn't really notice that I had control over frequency on these items until the other day; and then it became difficult for me to know what frequency I should set on Objects/Items. The settings leave it open to too much interpretation for me to be confident using it; the difference between "some" or "many" is subjective, and I feel like I'd get it wrong in the opinions of others.

This also reminds me about a similar issue I have with the "Censorship" selector: the settings are too vague for me to know what to do with them. If it listed specific types of censorship like "white-out", "black-bar", or "mosaic", then I would be able to make a decision on what to use more often.



* Make it easier to add them to books, do not need to go to Edit2 page but front page. Trust users won't need to commit new versions as they will apply at once.

Sounds good. Might have some tag-wars between users changing tags back and forth, but since it's registered users and not fully anonymous users doing the editing hopefully that would keep it from being too hostile.



* Make it possible to combine tags for more advance tagging. Example (Swimsuit x Cat Girl)
* Make adding character work in combination to this, so you can tag Char * Char or Char * Tag.

I like the idea, but I have a nagging feeling that there might be complications with this. Right now you have Contents tags as {id, text} values that you link on Objects/Items and index to link those items together in a graph. You've also added the ability to organize Contents tags in a strict hierarchy with the "Parent" field.

This new feature you propose sounds like you're adding an "AND" to link Contents tags and other Items together. I don't know enough SQL to know how this would be implemented, but I imagine the query for a combination-tag would change "SELECT objects, items WHERE tag1 AND tag2" to "SELECT objects, items WHERE tag1&2", where tag1&2 is a new tag created from tag1 and tag2, and where tag1, tag2, and tag1&2 are all Items(Contents, Character, Author) or a subset thereof in the DB.

Another a slight complication with the combination-tag and the Parent hierarchy is if 1 of the pair in the combination-tag uses a parent or ancestor of itself.

But like I said initially, I like the idea and can imagine some nice uses of it in tagging items.


Sorry for the long post! I've not been around here for very long, but I've found this database to be a really useful asset in my organizing. I give these suggestions hoping that in some minor way they can help improve the site, even if they are just used as counter-examples to direct development in another direction. In any case, I imagine that the users who have been around longer will have more informed opinions about these changes.
2015-03-08 03:38:27<Quote> <Edit>
MoeMoe
Moderator

KI: 1332

Radical changes ideas
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1235

Restructuring TYPE
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1231

Restructuring Contents and Genres
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1232

Suggestion: Internal Link in Info field
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1288

Type of parody
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1501

External link needs new Type (availability)
・finished updating (due to moving)
・closed (only announcement left)
・dead links (404)
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1478

Member of the circle needs new Type
・representative (private circle)
・member (group or joint circle)
・old member
・guest→collaborator
https://www.doujinshi.org/forum/index.php?IIID=1569

2015-03-14 10:05:05<Quote> <Edit>
7468726f77617761
KI: 77
* Combine Content/Genre not even sure why I split this.

After reading over MoeMoe's links and thinking about it some more, I understand why it's a good idea to combining Content and Genre. Tags are already capable of being organized hierarchically, and so my categories of "Type", "Genre", and "Contents" are just tags at different locations in that hierarchy: "Types" = root-level tags, "Genres" = branch-level tags, and "Contents" = leaf-level tags.

(1) Naming of the merged Contents/Genres:
I think it'd be simple and the most direct to call the merged Contents/Genres Tags. Definition of a "tag" is a "non-hierarchical keyword or term assigned to a piece of information" (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_%28metadata%29), which is how these Contents/Genres entries are applied to the books. They are organized in a hierarchy behind-the-scenes, and while this hierarchy might make the use of "tag" questionable based on that definition, I think the term "Tags" makes it more immediately apparent than "Contents" or "Genre" what these collections of terms/keywords are.


* Make it possible to combine tags for more advance tagging. Example (Swimsuit x Cat Girl)
* Make adding character work in combination to this, so you can tag Char * Char or Char * Tag.

Liking these ideas more and more. Several existing tags could be split into parts, like "Naked Apron" becoming "Naked"+"Apron", or most of the "Sex at" or "Sex with" tags becoming "Sex"+"(location, person, entity)" tag combinations. A theoretical "Naked" tag reminds me of feature that I think would help my tagging attempts a great deal:

(2) Multiple names for the same tag
As an example, a fictional tag K1000 could be identified with English names "Nude" and "Naked". That way "Nude" could be used when tagging a book containing nudity, and "Naked" would be paired with "Clothing/Apron" to get "Naked"+"Apron". This is instead of forcing "Naked" or "Nude" to be used in both cases: "Nude"+"Apron" doesn't work as well, and "Naked" on a book might be fine but "Nude" seems better somehow.

A more concrete example that I have run into is "Cumming Inside / 中出し, 膣内射精" (K180); the term I originally searched for to describe 中出し in English was "Nakadashi". I think it'd be nice to have both "Cumming Inside" and "Nakadashi" both link to K180.

(3) Tag definitions by other tags
Not a fully-formed idea, but I was thinking that "Exhibitionism / 露出癖" (K70) could be defined using other tags, like "Naked"+"Public" or "Naked"+"In Public".

Or, (which requires an exclusion/without "-" operator along with the combination "+" operator) something like "Ecchi" being defined by something like "Sexual Acts"-"Depictions Of Sex".
2015-03-16 05:58:33<Quote> <Edit>
stickgirl512
KI: 2
https://www.doujinshi.org/book/383014/Avalon/

Well... I understand this message from you. I can't read this comic !
Excuse me...
2016-06-17 23:47:01<Quote> <Edit>
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